The levels of consciousness psychiatry denies
Seeing | Psychology | 2026-08-21
Brian Stafford, MD
Hans Busstra, MA
Brian Stafford, MD, is a psychiatrist, board member and training director at the Animas Valley Institute, the organization founded by depth psychologist Bill Plotkin PhD and known for its work on nature-based human development. In this conversation with Hans Busstra, Stafford reflects on his remarkable transition from a successful academic career in psychiatry to guiding wilderness-based practices aimed at what he calls an “eco-awakening”: a shift from an ego-centric to an eco-centric mode of consciousness. Drawing on the work of Plotkin, Carl Jung, and his own clinical and personal experience as a wilderness guide, Stafford argues that many forms of psychological suffering are rooted in a deeper ecological disconnection. Rather than viewing the psyche primarily through the lens of pathology and symptom reduction, he proposes that psychiatry should recover a richer understanding of the psyche as a living reality embedded within both nature and the symbolic life of dreams, imagination, and meaning.
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For more info Brian’s work at the Animas Valley Institute: https://www.animas.org/guides/42/brian-stafford-md-mph/
Bill Plotkin’s book Soulcraft: https://www.animas.org/books/soulcraft/
Thanks to the OPEN Foundation for facilitating this interview and their recording of Stafford’s presentation at ICPR ’26
https://open-foundation.org/
https://icpr-conference.com
00:00 Introduction
02:02 Brian Stafford’s calling to leave psychiatry
08:04 A wilderness vision and “welcome home”
13:21 Why we lose our connection with nature
15:17 What is an eco-awakening?
18:10 Can everyone experience eco-awakening—and how do psychedelics relate?
19:45 Jung’s relationship with nature
22:14 Does nature literally speak to us?
25:42 Visionary states and “more real than real” experience
26:55 What happens during a ceremonial wilderness fast?
30:03 Dying to your former identity
32:31 Support the Essentia Foundation
33:43 Soul, ego, and the three worlds of consciousness
37:11 The ego after a soul encounter
40:11 From persona to a deeper calling
44:37 Why so many people feel stuck—and turn to psychedelics
49:25 Caterpillars, transformation, and answering the call
52:39 Must we descend to soul before ascending to spirit?
53:27 How Western society suppresses human development
59:06 Is the wilderness quest a privilege?
1:03:15 Training guides and the meaning of the wounded healer
1:08:18 Masculine, feminine, anima, and wholeness
1:13:25 Integrating soul and spirit—and learning across traditions
1:17:39 Fear, disillusionment, and leaving psychiatry
1:20:21 Why psychiatry needs a new model of human development
1:22:21 Closing remarks
1:23:00 Brian’s full presentation at the ICPR ’26 conference
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